And did those feet in ancient time

[karen2205]

[Poll #202411]

Sorry - cutting this to encourage you to answer the poll before you see why I've written that.



That poll was inspired by an editorial in last week's Telegraph, where it was argued that we're losing the social bonds we once had though all knowing the same hymns, regardless of social class or age.

FWIW I think it's a shame that fewer people know the classics - the Telegraph item mentioned nearly all of my favourite hymns - Jerusalem - the one I've used above, I vow to thee my country, Eternal Father strong to save, Abide with me 'where is death's sting'....'ills have no weight and tears no bitterness.' - those excerpts from that one were very powerful for me in my first term in Oxford when I was feeling quite homesick.

I don't quite buy the line that this is so important as a form of social bonding - but I can see how life would be hard for someone who didn't know those hymns/had never been in a Church and was then invited to a wedding. It's not so much religion as an being just one of those things everyone knows (or ought to know) - like how to pass the port, and tie a bow tie.... that can leave one feeling quite awkward if one doesn't know the protocol.



Dinner last night was good - chocaholic7 and another friend of mine, C, came around. I'd never met chocaholic7 before, and they'd never met each other before, and I was a little unsure of how we'd get on - but it worked brilliantly. They got so into things, I could barely get a word in edgeways;-)

I don't think I've laughed so much for months. The pair of them give new meaning to the term double entendre. Poor Prince Charles, we were merciless in our humour;-( (Hint, google is your friend, if you don't know what I'm talking about - a rant about how the internet makes a mockery of interlocutory injunctions will have to wait). C has joined the club of being able to reduce me to tears of hysterical laughter with very little effort at all. He's also been taking lessons in 'reading Karen's facial expressions';-) - my face is like an open book, I've never really learnt how to conceal my feelings, but never mind.

I am very glad I was only feeding three and not eight though!

Comments

[kamara.livejournal.com]

I like that Hymn. And did I typo that? O.o; it never looks right.

Jerusalem is my school's song, and also the song for the whole Trust that my school belongs to. I also randomly burst out into song with that hymn, but that's just cos I'm weird O.o; Same with Amazing Grace. I remember hymns better than I do anything else, which scares me sometimes....

</random spam>

[rho]

Jerusalem was my school song as well.

And generally if I'm in a position where a hymn is being sung and i don't know it, I just keep quiet. It doesn't me greatly.

[karen2205]

Yeah, I do the same with that hymn:-)

/me is weird too

random comment spam is more than welcome:-)

[bitterlight.livejournal.com]

I could have figured out that that was the line from the hymn, but yeah. I can see that, mostly because I grew up going to unprogrammed Quaker Meeting, which consists almost entirely of silence. I think not everyone knows the same hymns, and partly it's sad, partly that's what hymn-books are for. I'm not much of a Christian, but I'm kind of ... culturally Christian. I'd sing the hymns if I knew them.

[radinden]

Ah, sorry, I did rather forget that I have far too much to say and I should limit what I do actually say. As people unfortunate enough to read my LJ will know, I really do need to learn to cut back on the vast volume of stuff I have to say.

Nevertheless, I had a fantastic time - thank you - about which I shall blather more in my own LJ shortly (just as soon as I've written two more wretched literature questions...)

[jiggery-pokery.livejournal.com]

I think this is an interesting question and should be generalsied into secular songs with just as much relevance as religious ones. When I've asked my peers which songs people born in the UK in roughly the '70s or '80s could reasonably be expected to know, the conclusions were God Save The Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody and indeed Jerusalem. They should teach all three in schools. Without exception.

[ewx.livejournal.com]

In the Telegraph's more hymnally cohesive past, is it really the case that everyone knew the same hymns - given the myriad variants of christianity to be found here, and the numerous other religions that have long had a foothold here? Or is their golden age an imagined one?

[lisekit.livejournal.com]

I always liked "Make me a channel of your peace". I've been told this is a Catholic hymn, but I knew it and sang it in a number of non-Catholic churches as a child. So, I guess there is a pool of praise music from which everyone draws, to some extent. But there's probably a bit of golden construction at play, too.

[rougeforever.livejournal.com]

It's not so much religion as an being just one of those things everyone knows (or ought to know)

No. Disagree.

Why should the growing population of this country who are non-christians (including me) "ought to know" a christian religious song ?

Why should I "ought to know" how to tie a bow-tie or the right way round the table for the port? These are ridiculous social niceties which are unimportant in the big scheme of things. I think it's wrong to think lesser of a person because they don't understand the complexities of this social code.

This smacks of cultural imperialism. Your culture is no better than mine. Respecting other cultures and differences is one of signs of a truly developed culture.

This probably comes across as more ranty than I intended. My point is that you speak as though your culture is the only way. My view is that there are plenty of others.

[karen2205]

I will come and reply to the rest of this at some stage, but I'm at work, and kind of busy, so for now, here's the Telegraph article in question.

And I have no problem at all with people ranting at me - heaven knows I do it to other people all the time;-)