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Listen very carefully I shall say this only once
I've had this rant a couple of times now - I may as well have it where you can flame me to your heart's content.
On Sunday evening I arrived home to the following email on a semi public mailing list:
This is important!
Please read!
Following the disaster in London . . .
East Anglian Ambulance Service have launched a national "In case of Emergency (
ICE ) " campaign with the support of Falklands war hero Simon Weston.
The idea is that you store the word " I C E " in your mobile phone address book,
and against it enter the number of the person you would want to be contacted "In
Case of Emergency".
In an emergency situation ambulance and hospital staff will then be able to
quickly find out who your next of kin are and be able to contact them. It's so
simple that everyone can do it. Please do.
Please will you also email this to everybody in your address book, it won't take
too many 'forwards' before everybody will know about this. It really could save
your life, or put a loved one's mind at rest.
For more than one contact name ICE1, ICE2, ICE3 etc.
My reply to the list was as follows:
The idea is that you store the word " I C E " in your mobile phone address
book, >and against it enter the number of the person you would want to be
contacted "In >Case of Emergency".
Umm, this would mean that anyone who stole your phone (if you don't lock
your phone/keypad with a PIN) would know that the person listed as ICE is
someone important to you. I don't think that's advisable.
> In an emergency situation ambulance and hospital staff will then be able
to quickly >find out who your next of kin are and be able to contact them.
It's so simple that >everyone can do it. Please do.
'Next of kin' and 'person you want contacted' aren't necessarily the same.
If you use a PIN to lock your phone no one will be able to access the ICE
number *anyway*. If the mobile/landline networks are as congested as they
were on Thursday then access to someone's ICE person isn't going to help.
Calling people has to wait till the telecommunications network isn't quite
so busy.
If you're that concerned about someone being able to work out who to contact
for you in an emergency put their details on a piece of paper in your
purse - use one of Girlguiding UK's emergency details cards if you like.
Alternatively, if you have health problems you'd want a doctor to know about
eg. you're on steriods/have asthma etc. get a Medicalert pendant.
> Please will you also email this to everybody in your address book, it
won't take >too many 'forwards' before everybody will know about this. It
really could save >your life, or put a loved one's mind at rest.
No. There's never a reason to forward any email to 'everyone in your address
book' and if you're going to do it anyway *please* learn how to blind carbon
copy your emails. Something like this will never save someone's life. If
you've medical conditions the doctors treating you need to know about
immediately then get a Medicalert pendant.
And to expand on my rant - http://www.eastanglianambulance.com/content/news/newsdetail.asp?newsID=646104183 where the idea seems to originate is dated April 2005. Therefore, it was not issued as a response to last Thursday's happenings.
I object to the assertion that it can save lives or that it can put loved ones minds at rest. I object to the fact that this must have been written by someone who wasn't in London on 7th and who has no fucking clue of what was going on - the telephone network was congested, ICE contacts wouldn't have helped get information to relatives any faster because no one could get any calls through. I object to the fact that otherwise clueful people are passing this round seemingly without thought as to its merits. And I object to it being presented as a panacea - even if you don't lock your phone/keypad and are prepared to run the risk of your relatives/friends getting crank calls by being listed as your ICE contact, your phone may not be charged, your phone may have been submerged in water or you may not have your phone on you. To be honest, I object in principle to someone starting a chain email in response to the attacks - ffs, people are dead, the self assured, 'everything will be alright' tone grates.
If you're after sensible advice on emergency preparedness I suggest http://www.redcross.org.uk/uploads/documents/PREPARINGspFORspANspEMERGENCY(1).doc or http://www.ukresilience.info/home.htm or http://www.pfe.gov.uk/
On Sunday evening I arrived home to the following email on a semi public mailing list:
This is important!
Please read!
Following the disaster in London . . .
East Anglian Ambulance Service have launched a national "In case of Emergency (
ICE ) " campaign with the support of Falklands war hero Simon Weston.
The idea is that you store the word " I C E " in your mobile phone address book,
and against it enter the number of the person you would want to be contacted "In
Case of Emergency".
In an emergency situation ambulance and hospital staff will then be able to
quickly find out who your next of kin are and be able to contact them. It's so
simple that everyone can do it. Please do.
Please will you also email this to everybody in your address book, it won't take
too many 'forwards' before everybody will know about this. It really could save
your life, or put a loved one's mind at rest.
For more than one contact name ICE1, ICE2, ICE3 etc.
My reply to the list was as follows:
The idea is that you store the word " I C E " in your mobile phone address
book, >and against it enter the number of the person you would want to be
contacted "In >Case of Emergency".
Umm, this would mean that anyone who stole your phone (if you don't lock
your phone/keypad with a PIN) would know that the person listed as ICE is
someone important to you. I don't think that's advisable.
> In an emergency situation ambulance and hospital staff will then be able
to quickly >find out who your next of kin are and be able to contact them.
It's so simple that >everyone can do it. Please do.
'Next of kin' and 'person you want contacted' aren't necessarily the same.
If you use a PIN to lock your phone no one will be able to access the ICE
number *anyway*. If the mobile/landline networks are as congested as they
were on Thursday then access to someone's ICE person isn't going to help.
Calling people has to wait till the telecommunications network isn't quite
so busy.
If you're that concerned about someone being able to work out who to contact
for you in an emergency put their details on a piece of paper in your
purse - use one of Girlguiding UK's emergency details cards if you like.
Alternatively, if you have health problems you'd want a doctor to know about
eg. you're on steriods/have asthma etc. get a Medicalert pendant.
> Please will you also email this to everybody in your address book, it
won't take >too many 'forwards' before everybody will know about this. It
really could save >your life, or put a loved one's mind at rest.
No. There's never a reason to forward any email to 'everyone in your address
book' and if you're going to do it anyway *please* learn how to blind carbon
copy your emails. Something like this will never save someone's life. If
you've medical conditions the doctors treating you need to know about
immediately then get a Medicalert pendant.
And to expand on my rant - http://www.eastanglianambulance.com/content/news/newsdetail.asp?newsID=646104183 where the idea seems to originate is dated April 2005. Therefore, it was not issued as a response to last Thursday's happenings.
I object to the assertion that it can save lives or that it can put loved ones minds at rest. I object to the fact that this must have been written by someone who wasn't in London on 7th and who has no fucking clue of what was going on - the telephone network was congested, ICE contacts wouldn't have helped get information to relatives any faster because no one could get any calls through. I object to the fact that otherwise clueful people are passing this round seemingly without thought as to its merits. And I object to it being presented as a panacea - even if you don't lock your phone/keypad and are prepared to run the risk of your relatives/friends getting crank calls by being listed as your ICE contact, your phone may not be charged, your phone may have been submerged in water or you may not have your phone on you. To be honest, I object in principle to someone starting a chain email in response to the attacks - ffs, people are dead, the self assured, 'everything will be alright' tone grates.
If you're after sensible advice on emergency preparedness I suggest http://www.redcross.org.uk/uploads/documents/PREPARINGspFORspANspEMERGENCY(1).doc or http://www.ukresilience.info/home.htm or http://www.pfe.gov.uk/
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That original email doesn't suggest it was a response to Thursday, and I've yet to hear anyone claim that it is. Anyway, it still has no relevance to if it's a good idea or not
OK... but
has the same problem. I also think you're being a little paranoid. If someone steals your phone they can probably easily figure out a loved one based on names ("Mum & Dad" etc.) or call history (you phoned someone lots in the last week). And people who steal phones generally aren't in the business of holding loved ones to ransom (although they might be evil and make the odd malicious call that would easily be dealt with by the police).
Well done. You've spotted the reason for this campaign. They're never sure whether to phone 'Mum' or not.
Well, sure, if the phone is locked there's not much you can do. But if it isn't - and most people with a phone only have pinlocks applied when the phone first turns on - then you can look at the number and dial it from a landline. Or anything like that. Doctors and paramedics who will be using the ICE number can make the call when they're able. It doesn't invalidate the idea.
Quite right. It won't save peoples' lives, but it may well help to put someone's mind at rest. Although don't get me started on flipping MedicAlert.
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But that's my assessment and I won't be critical of those that weigh the odds up differently.
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Umm... you might be buying a house and therefore the solicitor/estate agent/mortgage broker will be in that list.
Just saying that the person you call most is not the person you love the most!
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Yes it does (or at least can be interpreted in that way)
Following the disaster in London . . .
East Anglian Ambulance Service have launched a national "In case of Emergency (
ICE ) " campaign
has the same problem.
This is true. It does have various advantages over phones though - I believe a phone is more likely to be stolen than a wallet, a piece of paper doesn't stop working when it gets wet (unless you're very unlucky with the ink), doesn't need charging and doesn't have any of the problems with needing a PIN.
I also think you're being a little paranoid. If someone steals your phone they can probably easily figure out a loved one based on names ("Mum & Dad" etc.) or call history (you phoned someone lots in the last week). And people who steal phones generally aren't in the business of holding loved ones to ransom (although they might be evil and make the odd malicious call that would easily be dealt with by the police).
Well, I list everyone by real names in my phone, so you can't work out anyone's relationship to me for that very reason. Possibly am being rather paranoid, but that's just me - it doesn't take a lot of effort to list people by name rather than relationship so I'm preventing one potential problem with no inconvenience to myself. I use my phone so little my call history will tell you nothing about who is important to me or not. My sister tells me the same re people stealing mobiles being more interested in selling them on etc than in making malicious calls, but why run the risk when there's an easy to way to remove it?
Well done. You've spotted the reason for this campaign. They're never sure whether to phone 'Mum' or not.
No, you're missing the point. If the reason they want to get hold of a legal next of kin is to get consent to a particular procedure, being able to get hold of someone else is of no help whatsoever to the medical staff.
To be honest, if I was in any way conscious I'd ask them to bring me a pay phone to let me make the telephone calls because a call from me would be far less worrying than a call from a doctor/nurse.
But if it isn't - and most people with a phone only have pinlocks applied when the phone first turns on - then you can look at the number and dial it from a landline.
My understanding is that people with non flip-top phones tend to lock their keypads so that no one can make any calls without unlocking it to avoid making accidental 999/112 calls. From my memory of my sister's phone, when this lock is applied you can't access any of the info in the address book until you've unlocked it.
Although don't get me started on flipping MedicAlert.
Go on - am I misunderstanding it? I'd always been taught in first aid courses that they were good, right and proper.
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Yes, but that's usually "menu + *" or some other combination of buttons that's the same on all phones of that make rather than a number personal to you.
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But the person you choose as your ICE often IS your legal next of kin, and if not, should know who that person is. Otherwise they're pretty useless as an ICE contact in the first place.
The point about not phoning 'Mum' is that 'Mum' might be a frail old lady with a heart condition. Equally 'Mum' might be the kind of parent that the child has little to no contact with and would never want contacted in an emergency. Someone looking at that entry in a phone book doesn't know whether phoning in a real emergency is going to cause terrible stress or not.
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Maybe in the long term, phone manufactures could start to make phones where ICE settings (possibly half a dozen?) are available if the person wishes to fill them in before phone locking. The rest of the address book and functions could be placed behind a PIN number, but that ICE numbers and a preprogrmmed 112 emergance number can be placed on the outside (allowing only those calls to be made without entering a PIN?
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Conceded. Perhaps it's the fact that I already knew it wasn't and had not seen it presented as such before that biased me towards interpreting it the other way.
This is true. It does have various advantages over phones though - I believe a phone is more likely to be stolen than a wallet, a piece of paper doesn't stop working when it gets wet (unless you're very unlucky with the ink), doesn't need charging and doesn't have any of the problems with needing a PIN.
That is also true. More on this shortly.
Well, I list everyone by real names in my phone ... why run the risk when there's an easy to way to remove it?
Very sensible. But I think you'll have a hard time persuading most people to do this :-)
No, you're missing the point. If the reason they want to get hold of a legal next of kin is to get consent to a particular procedure...
The campaign's founder specifically uses my example of not being sure whether or not to call Mum, so I think that my point is still valid.
My understanding is that people with non flip-top phones tend to lock their keypads so that no one can make any calls without unlocking it to avoid making accidental 999/112 calls. From my memory of my sister's phone, when this lock is applied you can't access any of the info in the address book until you've unlocked it.
The most commonly used (IME) form of keypad locking is not coded. Anyone can unlock it without a pin. Plus, you'll find that most phones will allow 999/112 calls despite being keypad locked!
[Regarding MedicAlert] Go on - am I misunderstanding it? I'd always been taught in first aid courses that they were good, right and proper.
Indeed, they are good, right and proper, and my beef isn't really with them. It's the fact that a MedicAlert bracelet is a very publicly visible sign that someone has a medical condition and I prefer to keep my medical history private. Also a MedicAlert bracelet is easily lost, forgotten, stolen or just plain inconvenient in some circumstances. We have the technology to solve all these problems by offering implanted chips that paramedics can easily read without searching a body, which can not be lost or stolen and which protect your privacy. Unfortunately the general perception of everyone else is that subdermal chips are the work of the devil and a route to an instant loss of all privacy, so I'm not able to make use of a service which is available to dogs but not to people. And that really really bugs me.
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As for subdermal chips, bollocks to that idea. You may be quite happy to ave something jabbed under your skin - I'm not. As any vet could tell you (or for that matter, anyone who's ever had an piercing), subdermal implants don't necessarily stay put - they can migrate under the skin or even "grow out". My cat's had to be done twice when the first one popped out of a cyst on his back (it was originally implanted into his neck). And that's without going into issues over allergic reactions or the whole privacy issue.
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As for bracelets or necklaces - bracelets are *definitely* visible and I don't think a necklace would suit me, and would still be visible a lot of the time.
I still think chips increase privacy over any sort of external tag you have to carry. Anyway, my real gripe is that there isn't a decent solution to the problem MedicAlert tags aim to solve and so I just rely on a card in my wallet.
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AFAIK, in the UK nobody else can consent to medical treatment for an adult. If someone's incapable of giving consent doctors make the decisions. They will discuss options with family/close friends, but there's not a consent issue. The 'legal next of kin' thing is a bit of a myth in this regard.
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Your children don't count as next-of-kin as they are minors; depending on your relationship with him your father would be, or your girlfriend in his stead (partners count as next-of-kin in legal terms).
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I was being (slightly) flippant about the kids. My girlfriend's status is an interesting one, though. We don't yet cohabit - I'd expect Tesco to have a better idea of our relationship status than the State, through analysis of shopping records and mutual clubcard utilisation. So if I'm lying unconscious, they're going to look me up and contact my Dad; lovely guy although he is, he's 200 miles away and has less of a clue than my gf. Unless I carry a MedicAlert necklace or similar.
Or unless I put an ICE contact on my phone. I think that's convinced me... :)
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As it happened, it was actually my eldest daughter (who was only 5 at the time) who told them to call her dad, and even remembered where in my bag I kept the phone number! I actually collapsed in Spar, of all places, on Christmas Eve - I'd only popped out with the girls to get a pint of milk, and it's just as well I did otherwise I would have been at home with just the girls when it happened.
In the case of my incapacity,
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And your daughter sounds fantastic - I hope my kids would be that clued, but I'm not sure.
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Funnily enough, now Dani is 12 going on 13 and her younger sister Kit is 10 going on 11, it's actually Kit who's the sensible one and Dani who's the utter airhead - to quote her dad, she "hasn't got the common sense God gave valley girls"! They've been raised to be smart kids though, and they're both in the Guides.
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The point of ICE is not 'this is the only way and the only thing we will use', it's to optimize the chances of John Doe being identified or John Doe's family finding out where he is (since we're not just talking about deaths here, but memory loss, people in comas in hospital, etc). It's one tool of many.
The biggest potential for abuse that I can see is that someone finds a lost phone and prank-calls. Well, that happens already (to Julia Sawahla, most notably). Better prank-calling someone's partner than their 80 year old Mum who might keel over from shock before the phone's owner checks in. And perhaps this will encourage more people to find out their phone's IMEI so that lost phones can be disabled quickly.
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I'm guessing I should find out what it is? but what is it that I need to find out?
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I agree completely with you!!!!! :):)
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And lots of people have minor but important things and don't carry that info on them. My housemate is allergic to penicillin, but I doubt he carries medicalert info for that. I can't carry a simple this is what's wrong with me, because what's wrong with me is a vast list of things and I'd need them to contact someone who could learn what happened and tell them which aspects are most likely to be relevant to the situation.
A telephone isn't the best way to carry ICE info, but it's better than not carrying it at all. So, this may help save or improve some lives. It's not a bad thing to do. And there really isn't any risk, since if your phone were stolen, it's unlikely they'd use it to call your numbers - they'd use it to make free phone calls. And if they used it to make crank calls, they can already do that with the numbers you have in your phone.
The odds of it helping any given person who does it are incredibly low, but the odds of it helping some people if lots of people do it are high.